This transcript was generated with the help of AI and may contain some errors.

Mark Circo [00:00:00]:

We actually made the change and we saw business improve because now they were sitting there going, okay, I’m actually going to make a little bit of extra money. Nothing crazy, but there’s incentive for me to support this. And then you had them actually bringing some of the sales leads to us because it was easier. They’re like, I’ll just shoot the lead over. You’re going to do all the work, and then you’ll bring it to me to close at the end as far as delivering it. And so that stood out because once we identified that, really it was beneficial for both sides.

 

Kyler Mason [00:00:28]:

Whether you’re going to market through dealers, distributors, or some other partner channel, the mediated sale is complex. We call it B2B2X.

 

John Gough [00:00:36]:

But the leaders in the industry are the ones who are making it look simple. I’m John Gough.

 

Kyler Mason [00:00:41]:

And I’m Kyler Mason. And this is Why You Win. Presented by Element Three.

 

John Gough [00:00:47]:

Our guest today is Mark Circo, head of CX North America at Reautomotive. Mark’s career spans over 20 years, and our conversation focused on early days in data analytics, his time in sales, and how re today is taking a unique approach to their go to market motion. We hope you enjoy the conversation. All right, Mark, welcome to the podcast. It’s great having you here today. Thank you for jumping on with us and joining. We’re looking forward to this.

 

Mark Circo [00:01:14]:

Yeah, no, thank you so much for this opportunity. Really. I’m just as excited and looking forward to this. So thank you.

 

John Gough [00:01:18]:

Yeah, terrific. Mark, we go way back now, back to the spring at the NTEA show, and we were looking around the booth and had a great conversation with you and then saw you again in Vegas just a couple of weeks ago. And first of all, very excited about Re, very excited about the product and the company and our conversations up to this point. We have found that you also have this really great breadth of experience and background in commercial trucks over an entire career. We think you’ve got a lot to add, a lot that you can teach, and a lot that you can just share from your background and experience. Before we do anything else, just sort of turn the mic over to you and tell us where you’ve been, what have you seen so far?

 

Mark Circo [00:02:01]:

Thank you so much for that. And you’re too kind. Likewise, I’ve enjoyed the conversations and enjoyed not only sharing my short experience with re today, but also my background in the trucking industry. So as far as who I am and what I’ve done. So Mark Serko, head of customer experience for North America for rental. I’ve been in the trucking industry for 24 years, so quite a long time. And really, when you break it down, theres a couple of segments for my career. So I’ve spent 13 years for a major heavy duty truck OEM, and then I’ve done nine years for a couple of upfitters.

 

Mark Circo [00:02:36]:

So I’ve seen both sides of that. Right. So the cab chassis side and the upfitting side. And then I’ve also spent some time on the EV side back in 2014, 2015, working with some electric transit buses. So that kind of is the short version of my background. And then I had this amazing opportunity to join re and represent this amazing technology of a product and jumped in deep.

 

Kyler Mason [00:02:58]:

First, let’s go way back. Like, how did you get started?

 

Mark Circo [00:03:01]:

Accidentally, you know, firm believer of everything happens for a reason. I know some people kind of scoff at that, but literally going back to college, had a career fair. Like I said, I’ve been at this for a little while. So going back to those at the career fair and major truck OEm reached out and said, hey, you know, based on GPA and all these other things, we’d like to interview for a position. And ended up getting the job. And what was intriguing there was, it was for sales and marketing. And so I had expertise in marketing. And what really drew me to that company was they had a full time job and it was called graduate development program.

 

Mark Circo [00:03:34]:

So for two years, you rotated throughout the entire company, learning not just your soul area, but how literally cradle the grave this company operates. And so from my standpoint, it was such an amazing opportunity coming right out of school to learn about this industry that, to be honest, I really didn’t know anything about. When I heard about that, I thought, I don’t want to drive a truck. Right? And someone kind of laughed and they said, no, no, no. Go and see what it’s like. And they just won me over. So that’s literally by accident how I got into this field.

 

Kyler Mason [00:04:03]:

Which company was that?

 

Mark Circo [00:04:04]:

It was Mactrux. And what’s interesting there is, during my two year rotation, throughout the entire company, they were then acquired by Volvo. So then you had now this new dynamic with this company. And so as my two year rotation was ending, I said, hey, would you like to relocate to where Volvo was located in North Carolina and also be part of our team that was going to consolidate the dealer network. Right. And so if you look at kind of this episode and what we’re talking about and how you win and utilizing dealer networks from an early stage, I was already thrown into that world, two.

 

Kyler Mason [00:04:36]:

Years in, you started to get close to the dealer, is that right?

 

Mark Circo [00:04:38]:

Yeah. So after two years, right? So, like I said, rotated, you name it, right? I did parts service. They even had a marine application for their powertrain contract negotiations with the union. Right. So sat down in those meetings and learned a lot from a negotiation standpoint. And then. Yeah, right. At basically at the end of year two was thrown into this dealer segment.

 

Mark Circo [00:04:57]:

And so my role on this small team was marketing manager. So I analyzed data. Right. Polk data at the time was a big thing being used in areas of responsibilities, which everyone calls AoR’s, which is basically as a dealership. You’re giving, you know, a certain plot of land, so to speak, that this is where you will sell your goods. So we did an analysis and we basically said we have these two dealers who do we believe is a stronger dealer and best set to move the company forward and basically worked with them to buy each other out, in essence, and consolidate. So did that for almost two years and then flipped that experience into setting up a standardized program. So back in the day, you had companies like Ford that had Blue Oval, John Deere had their own program.

 

Mark Circo [00:05:40]:

So at that time, Mac and Volvo wanted to create a program called Symbols of Excellence. And so once again, learning more about the dealers on. We graded them on parts, service, sales, warranty, and set up standards that allow dealers to basically remove through the segment. So you’ve kind of got your top tier dealers mid tier, and then your dealers, who maybe are a little less than not because they’re poor performers, they just need a little bit of help. So each segment needed a specialty to say, okay, here’s what you need to do if you want to move to the middle tier. And if you’re in the middle tier, here’s what you need to do to move into the upper tier. And then, you know, the upper tier, you think they don’t need to do anything. Well, here’s what you need to do to stay or to really go that extra mile.

 

Mark Circo [00:06:20]:

So, learned a lot within my first five years.

 

Kyler Mason [00:06:23]:

So, Mac, Volvo was the stimulus for dealer consolidation. You guys were driving some of that.

 

Mark Circo [00:06:30]:

Yeah, basically it was one company acquiring another. Right. And when you think about it, even if it’s not a dealer type company. Right. You have, don’t want to say maybe necessarily redundancies, but overlap is probably a better word. And so you can have competing dealers, or you could just make, in essence, mega dealers. Right. That basically said, okay, I’m going to have the entire territory, but represent both brands and put the best before.

 

Mark Circo [00:06:54]:

So, yeah, there was a drive from the company on that one.

 

Kyler Mason [00:06:56]:

Yeah, that’s very cool.

 

John Gough [00:06:57]:

How much training then had to go into these new dealerships to cross train across new brands and products? Was that a big, hard lift for you all?

 

Mark Circo [00:07:06]:

I mean, because you think about it, if you know one truck, you know, in essence another one, it’s then the particulars. Right. What does another one do slightly differently or better? Right. What are the differences? It was more so learning the territory. So you’re so used to calling on one subset of customers, and then during that exercise, which was interesting about dealers, they’re a little siloed, right? Or they have been. You have your sales organization, your parts organization, and your service organization, and they all kind of operate in theory together, but independently. So you could take the same list, which the dealers who ended up getting it and do it well were already doing it. But the thought process there is if I have a sales list that says, here are all the people that buy trucks in my areas, and you segment it and say, heres how many actually buy from me, and then heres who buys my competitors.

 

Mark Circo [00:07:52]:

Well, you could take that same list and go to your service department, say, okay, out of, lets say you have 100 customers, how many are actually coming in for service? Well, maybe it’s only 75. Okay, well, are you missing the 25 because they’re doing their own work or are they going somewhere else? Take that same list, go to your parts department, and say, okay, how many of these customers are buying parts from us? And so now you’ve taken one list and you’re able to basically triple it. And now give each organization their targets and say, okay, you need to get, you know, whatever it is, one or 2% more penetration. And all that is keeping that business in house and making sure that you’re maximizing that exposure to that customer.

 

John Gough [00:08:31]:

Yeah, I think that the corporate ability to do the analytics and produce those insights and then feed them into local dealerships is a huge value add to the local sales teams who typically don’t have the firepower or the hours in a day to go do that research on their own. Right?

 

Mark Circo [00:08:48]:

Absolutely. Yeah. And they would do, I mean, corporate support. It’s truly a strong partnership. Right. The dealer need the dealership and what they do really well and then the corporate as well. And so you would have support. We would have district sales managers, for instance, and they would assist dealers in doing what they call a sales blitz.

 

Mark Circo [00:09:04]:

Right. So same thing, analyzing the data, looking at the customer base, and saying, okay, together, let’s go target these different customers. And they would have a goal in mind of what they were looking to achieve. They also, years ago were offering services now which are kind of standard, but back then it was inventory control. So take apart, right. Rather than you just buying a lot of parts and putting them on the shelf, they would actually run data that says, let’s look at utilization, let’s look at your obsolescence number as well and say you’re carrying some parts that are really slow movers. Why, we’ll store those for you. Let’s manage your inventory and have better turn rates for you and maximize your money, your parts.

 

Mark Circo [00:09:41]:

So really, like I said, was so blessed to learn so much from the corporate side, but also working with these dealers, then listening to what they’re struggling with or their problems and issues really.

 

Kyler Mason [00:09:52]:

At the forefront from a relationship standpoint. Were those initiatives that you were bringing to the dealer groups, were they welcomed or were you met with resistance? Or was it like case by case? Like, what was that like?

 

Mark Circo [00:10:03]:

Absolutely fantastic point. Its all the above. Like I said, going back to your tears, you had the dealers who were just looking for any help that said, hey, this is great. Thank you so much. Like kind of hold my hand, lets do this together and lets run. Theres other dealers who are like, look, I didnt get this bagged right without knowing what Im doing. So Im at a really good place in my life. I dont want to do extra work.

 

Mark Circo [00:10:26]:

I dont need that extra item that comes with it. And you have other people saying, I know my business better than anyone else. Its funny, there was a line we used to use that when you look at polk data, its just data. You run the data. You dont have the background on it. I would sit there and say, listen, youre the subject matter expert. Im just going to highlight what I’ve seen. You go through the data and someone say, well, that customer no longer exists.

 

Mark Circo [00:10:50]:

They’re doing this. And so I can’t take credit for it. Someone else used the line, but it stuck with me. And literally, when you’re kind of getting a rowdy crowd, one of the elder statesmen, so to speak, said, hey, if you’re in a desert and dying of thirst and I give you half a glass of water, would you not drink it because it’s only half full? Everyone kind of paused and they said, look, we know this information’s not 100%, but it’s something that can assist you in getting to where you need to go. And so, you know, when they heard that. They’re like, yeah, okay, you’re right. We’ll throw the bad part out, but let’s focus on the information that is actually valid and then use it to move our business forward.

 

John Gough [00:11:24]:

Yeah, I love that. The dealers that you’re working with in that world, they are Mac dealers involved with dealers or are they mixed lots?

 

Mark Circo [00:11:32]:

Yeah, they’re mixed. I don’t even know if there are many dealers that are just one brand. Right. You need multi brands. And if it’s not brand, for instance, in the same industry, they carry other lines, what you normally would call construction equipment or yellow iron. Right. Or forklifts, or at that time, they were just class eight trucks. So then you’d have a line that says, okay, who are my class? Six, seven and below.

 

Mark Circo [00:11:53]:

So you have multiple oems that they’re carrying.

 

John Gough [00:11:57]:

Yeah. In that environment, we often see dealers that they just get so big that it’s almost like the deal that wags the dog. As the OEM, you feel like you have a lot of power and authority in these conversations. You are the product manufacturer, and then you enter into the sales environment and some dealers will really cater to you and care a lot about who you are. And especially if you have strong brand recognition, like Volvo or Mac. And then in other worlds, it’s just like you’re just one of many going back.

 

Mark Circo [00:12:24]:

Right. This is before my time, but I heard the stories. There really was a dynamic shift at one point. Oems, regardless who you are, if you’re a Mac, Volvo freight glider, just talk about the big classic heavy duty truck manufacturers. They own their own dealerships. They were called corporate stores. So in that scenario, you did have all the power. Right.

 

Mark Circo [00:12:41]:

You could dictate how each store was going to run, who was going to do what, and what kind of goals they were heading towards, and the new model, that’s not the case. Right. Because they’re independent owned businesses who have partnered with you. Right. And so that’s where it goes back to being more of a partnership. They’ve said, yes, I really like your product, or I like your support network that I want to sign up with you company ABC XYZ and represent your product. So it really is. You could make suggestions in some instances.

 

Mark Circo [00:13:08]:

There is some contractual language that kind of identifies certain targets and objectives you have to hit to stay compliant, but it really is more of a true conversation. Say, listen, here’s what we’d really like you to do. Here’s how we recommend doing it. Dealers take that suggestion and analyze it, and either say, yep, we agree, or we’re going to modify it, or we’re good. But thank you for sharing the information.

 

John Gough [00:13:31]:

Right. You moved from there onto the upfitter side, and that’s exactly the kind of power dynamic shift that we’re talking about. Can you share some more about that transition for you?

 

Mark Circo [00:13:42]:

Yeah. So after I was done with the dealer side of things, then they were like, okay, we’re done. What would you like to do? And I was like, I like to go into sales. And they were like, how about the military? And I was like, never been. And they’re like, oh, we’ll teach you. I said, okay. So that was my kind of dipping my toes into military and federal government sales, like GSA and things of that nature. And then, so as I got better in that, that actually allowed me to go to the outfitter side.

 

Mark Circo [00:14:04]:

I moved on from the Magpul company and went to a company called Federal Signal. They have a lot of products like street sweepers, sewer cleaners, etcetera. And I was in their federal government sales manager. So same thing, going and working with a dealer network, but now on the upfitter side. So, basically, we would buy the cabin chassis, and we would put the sweeper body or the sewer truck body onto the back of that based on our customers needs and specifications, leveraging that dealer experience. Because now I was the only person in the entire company, or across, really, four companies doing federal government and military sales, and I had to work specifically with every dealership across North America. So it was really good because, like I said, I had that background. I knew what their pain points were.

 

Mark Circo [00:14:47]:

I knew some of the things right now coming in as a true corporate person, because it was a direct sale, really ruffled some feathers because they were thinking that you were maybe infringing on their business. But when you explained to them that you had to have certain contracts in place, and because the company owned them, it just was the way that it had to work. You found other ways to work with them and incentivize them to really have a great relationship. So, yeah, really interesting to be on the upfitter side and just say, okay, look, the chassis is the chassis, right? We have a set spec. We’re buying it for someone. Here’s what we really need for you guys to provide. So our body literally integrates perfectly with your chassis.

 

John Gough [00:15:25]:

Any moments from that time period that stand out to you is particularly hard to make that conversation work well with the dealer.

 

Mark Circo [00:15:34]:

Yeah. Yeah. So it was early on where you come in, you’re the new person. So they’re going to test you, number one, right? And you’re going in trying to make inroads and you’re getting a lot of pushback. And so I was really concerned at first thing. What did I get myself into? Right? Did I make the right choice? And when you really sat down and listened to them, there was a certain dollar amount that the dealers were getting per transaction in the military, federal government. And what normally happens is oems will pay that to the dealership and they have to then do the PDI, the pre delivery inspection, and a number of other things that are required to get a vehicle registered and in service. Well, the dollar amount that they were getting was actually low because when you factored in, if you think about military bases, they’re not in the middle of a dense city.

 

Mark Circo [00:16:19]:

They’re usually on the outskirts for some dealers, just the travel alone and having somebody out of work for that long, when you actually did the math, they were backwards. So it was really going through those rough times and then sitting there and bringing that internal into the company and saying, hey, I think we should shift the basically payment schedule or structure that says, on average, if we bumped it up, more dealers would be inclined to support. And, you know, here’s why. So we actually made the change and we saw business improve because now they were sitting there going, okay, I’m actually going to make a little bit of extra money, nothing crazy, but there’s incentive for me to support this. And then you had them actually bringing some of the sales leads to us because it was easier. They’re like, I’ll just shoot the lead over. You’re going to do all the work, and then you’ll bring it to me to close at the end as far as delivering it. And so that stood out because once we identified that really it was beneficial.

 

John Gough [00:17:11]:

For both sides, I think that’s such a good example of finding the win win for everybody in the ecosystem in the model. Because if only the customer and the OE is winning and the dealer sort of left in the red, then of course, what incentive do they have to participate in that interaction? They’re not going to make the experience better for your customer ultimately. And then the customer is going to stand that they’re looking at you guys and say, why am I choosing them if they don’t have the support infrastructure thats going to drive my solution to be really effective.

 

Mark Circo [00:17:44]:

Preston, and you touched on something, if you dont mind me just throwing two points out there. One of those things that happened there that I carry even today in my current role with re is that statement we win when you win. Our head of sales says the same thing when were on calls with dealers. Its truly a whole ecosystem. Its not the company being a dictator or the customer. As you said, the tail wagging the dog. It truly is key genuine partnership that says if I set you up for success, I’ll be successful, right? It’s just the nature of that relationship. You mentioned customers thinking about the level of support they’re getting.

 

Mark Circo [00:18:17]:

Something that stuck with me that I read early in my career was procter and gamble’s two moments of truth. And so if you’re familiar, I apologize, but it’s really poignant. And the two moments of truth, the analogy that they gave was, you know, you’re in a supermarket, you’re in a store, whatever it is, and you need to buy laundry detergent and you’re walking down the aisle and we’ve all seen it, right? There’s tide gain all these amazing products. First moment of truth is why do you pick what you pick? And so let’s just say we’ve all seen a commercial, right? Tide gets whites whiter. So I picked tide, I pick it off the shelf. So that’s the first moment of truth. And as a company, you’ve won, right? You won that first moment of truth. The second moment of truth then comes on the flip side.

 

Mark Circo [00:18:54]:

And your comment made me think of that, which is now I go and use the product. Are my whites actually whiter than they have been? Did it meet my expectation? And if you win those two moments of truth, you now have a brand loyal and dedicated customer. And so we bring the same thing here, which is right now at rework, engaging with our customers and getting the voice of the customer on the product, on our service and all these other things. And really then trying to identify what’s that first moment of truth look like? Why are they choosing re? Why do they want to work with re? And then the flip side of that is how do we then provide that service and just that level of communication that also then allows us to win that second level of truth that says we met their expectation. So I think it’s like I said, regardless of what industry you’re in, looking at it from that standpoint will make anyone successful.

 

John Gough [00:19:42]:

Totally. Growing up in digital marketing, that makes me think of Google’s add on to that, which is the zero moment of truth. When customers start to become solution aware when they ask for the first time, what even is this category of product and what should I be thinking or learning or knowing about this. In commercial vehicles, it seems like your customers are. They basically start out solution aware. They don’t often have that. Turns out I do need a truck. But you’re operating in a space now where you are reproduces modular electric vehicles.

 

John Gough [00:20:14]:

Not for me to put words in your mouth, but that’s what I understand about the company. And it is a slightly different take on the product and on how you build it and how you service it and how you maintain it over time. Have you experienced some sort of category design or information that you have to provide to the customer that says, we are not just the same, but a different flavor or a different scent of laundry detergent? We’re actually a totally unique thing.

 

Mark Circo [00:20:40]:

Going back to. We talked about my career, right. So before I came to re, I did a second tour of duty at Mack involvement. So I was there for the last eight years. I was in a really good position, and this opportunity came in front of me, and at first I wasn’t sure what was it about. Did my due diligence. And I’m thinking, why have I not heard of this company just being totally transparent? This is amazing. This is revolutionary.

 

Mark Circo [00:21:02]:

I know people laugh, but when you think about our CEO Daniel Berrell, co founder, came up with this great technology and this thought, which was, how do we improve transportation? If you started with a clean sheet of paper and said you’re not bound by, if you want to call it, legacy constraints, how would we do it? How would we design this? And so if you look at the core of our technology, it’s the x by wire, right? And it’s the recorder. And the point I’m getting at to your side of things is like, is there a slight education? Is you don’t have your traditional mechanical connection from your front wheel to, you know, your left to your right, where you have your axle that goes across, and then you have your drivetrain that runs through the middle of the vehicle. And when I first looked at this, we don’t have axles and drivelines trying to wrap your head around it. And then you’re looking into the technology and everything is really coupled into that corner, right? So the x by wire, for those, in case you may not be aware, stands for right, like drive by wire, steer by wire. We’re the only OEM that’s fully FNVSs certified for all three of those technologies. And there’s so many benefits from doing that, right? So if you think of the substructure of the vehicle, right. You don’t have those protrusions, right, the axles and drive lines. We’ve got secondary and tertiary safety measures in our corners.

 

Mark Circo [00:22:18]:

So if you think of that traditional vehicle, whether it’s gasoline, natural gas, whatever, if your axle breaks, you’re in trouble. If your brake line gets cut, it affects the entire vehicle. In our instance, if you have an issue in a quarter, it affects just that one quarter. So let’s just take the brake line. The brake line goes, well, we can now engage our regenerative braking to act as a secondary measure to break that wheel. We also have three other corners that are breaking as well. So a lot of safety, right. So when.

 

Mark Circo [00:22:44]:

When we’re talking to our customers or sitting there explaining this to them, at first it is kind of unique, but when they look at it and they realize what it does. So going back to the corner technology, and this is, you know, I know we talked to NTA, and I was getting a little giddy, and you guys are laughing because it’s just so, to be unique, right? So one of the amazing items of this technology is each corner. It’s one skew. So because it’s all done by wire, right. We have our braking, our steering. Each corner has a motor. So you’re doing regenerative braking at each corner. And then there’s an ECU built into this one module.

 

Mark Circo [00:23:15]:

We also then have a main ECU that they communicate with. Well, I can take that left front tire out and make it a rear right or front right or rear left, and we just reprogram it. So you think about going back to that dealer model. So why would a dealer be interested? Well, there’s less parts. So if I keep a quarter on my shelf, it now impacts all four locations on the vehicle. I don’t have to keep four separate parts, the labor parts, about 20 minutes to unbolt and pull this quarter out and then slide it back in. Then you reprogram it. So when you think about that, the trucking industry, there’s a line that says, if the wheels aren’t spinning, I’m not making money.

 

Mark Circo [00:23:51]:

You now start hearing downtime and uptime, and people are selling uptime. And so if you think about re, re is doing the same thing, right? If I can guarantee that your downtime is minimized and your uptimes increased, that also affects your total cost of ownership, right? Because, you know, you could be up and running the majority of the time. It also then gives you the other thing that people, when they see it, they think it’s broken. It’s the only analogy I can give you is it gives you all wheel steer. By that, I mean is your wheels are here and then you want to turn left, your front turns left, but your rear turns right, which gives you a super small turning radius. So we have a standard 14 foot body on the back that you put size. We can go 16 and up to 18, but we have a 39 foot turning radius, which is equivalent to a target parole. So if you think about that, right.

 

Mark Circo [00:24:35]:

The size of the envelope of that big truck that’s working, having that small footprint is another benefit to our customers. Right. Think of dense urban areas. One of my accounts in the past was New York City. Well, you got to get in and out of places. Well now if you have that articulation, you’re steering to be able to get in and out of traffic. That makes a huge difference for the customer. Right.

 

Mark Circo [00:24:55]:

And what you’ll learn. I like movies and analogies, and I think most people have seen Austin powers when they’re trying to turn that little cart in the hallway. And it’s a 16 or like 160 point turn. You know, we have that flexibility with the articulation getting in and out. Yeah.

 

Kyler Mason [00:25:09]:

So that’s amazing. So where are you meeting? Resistance and adoption or the sales process?

 

Mark Circo [00:25:15]:

Yeah. So I think one of the things the, I’ll say the entire industry is facing is maybe previous oems prior to us, you know, maybe not having a lot of success and kind of just not lasting. Right. That’s probably the best way to say it is really giving it a go and then not making it and then exiting the market. And I think we’ve seen maybe a higher rate of that than normal recently. And so what you have as far as resistance and people maybe who’ve jumped in early like that and say, hey, listen, I’ve done this, I feel a little burnt, right. Or a little hesitant. So I’m cautious.

 

Mark Circo [00:25:48]:

So that then turns around and puts the pressure on us, which we like. That means we just need to work harder. We need to work harder to show you we want to be here long term, that we plan on being here long term. And when you think about what we’re offering, you know, you mentioned earlier about kind of how we’re going to mark in the modularity. Theres really three, if you want to say, go to market avenues that we have. Right. So we have that cab chassis that you guys have seen. And its a low platform, its super flat, super clean.

 

Mark Circo [00:26:18]:

Right. Theres nothing on the back, which most of the time people are relocating and then putting back after you put a box, we dont have that. You basically take your box were body agnostic. If you want a service body, a box truck platform doesnt matter, you bolt it to the top and you go, that’s avenue one. The second is, and we just launched our class five strip chassis at act. And for those who saw it, basically it’s like what people call the skateboard, it’s the platform. And then we had steering and the seat installed on there, that’s another avenue where we could sell that platform. And then someone can come and put whatever type of body cab on that vehicle that they want.

 

Mark Circo [00:26:53]:

And then the third is, you heard me talk about the re corner in that technology, we could sell the four corners to another OEM, and there’s been discussions where they could take that and put it on their platform, and then also go to market. So if you think about, there’s a question asked at a recent press conference that said, who’s buying that? So if you’re talking to an OEM, is it someone that’s just getting into the market, is it someone who’s established, well, it’s both. It’s people who may see this as a quicker entry point into the market by using our technology. Great. It could be an established OEM that says, I really like this technology because it is a differentiator, no one else is doing it, so they might want to do that as well. So it really gives us three avenues that I think also helps with really kind of stabilizing yourself and your product in the market.

 

Kyler Mason [00:27:39]:

As you build the brand. Are you thinking, get to a place where you’re selling the four corners to an OEM, and they’re proudly saying like powered by re or something like that.

 

Mark Circo [00:27:49]:

I think there’s two ways. You’ll have some that will do that, and then you’ll have others that will white label it and then just own it. Which to me it’s the same kind of outcome. It’s getting the tech out there. So the more buy wire vehicles you have out there, the more comfortable people get. It’s different, it’s changed. And when you look at act, we had just over a hundred ride drives in a two day period, and every single person came out. Really, that’s the coolest thing.

 

Mark Circo [00:28:14]:

And actually, if you want to call it a complaint that they had, it was a predetermined and set track, right? And you’re just kind of doing laps right towards the end, there was like a little u turn area, and that really highlighted the articulation of our steering and they’re like, it was great. We wish there was a slalom course or more turns because it really just kind of was eye opening for them. So as a person that obviously, you know, works there, that was very exciting to hear because it was the same reason I jumped in. It was the technology. I got to experience it and digressing just for a quick second. When I was getting trained in the vehicle, I literally had the wheel turn. It was just doing circle after circle. People are laughing at me and they’re like what is wrong with you? I said it’s blowing my mind.

 

Mark Circo [00:28:52]:

Right. This turning radius is so tight and it works both ways, left and right because most people don’t realize in major trucks they’ll turn differently one way versus another. You’ll get more articulation going right than you will to the left. It’s one of those products that absolutely once you get in it, it sells itself.

 

John Gough [00:29:08]:

Is that by design because right turns are tighter than left turns?

 

Mark Circo [00:29:12]:

Yeah, it’s just the way it’s going and even if you think of our product. So in essence you have four steer tires now versus, you know, two drive to steer. So when youre making those turns it allows you to get the tighter turning radius. But theres also less wear because if you think about when youre turning, your front goes your rear straight in theory youre dragging those tires through the turn where here were not. Like I said, its just a very unique experience operating our vehicle.

 

John Gough [00:29:39]:

So was that the first time in your career that you had a fleet buyer ask you to put together a slalom course for their truck?

 

Mark Circo [00:29:45]:

Yeah, its funny right? Because when you think about I think about my career when youre setting up some of these demonstrations, things you want to do to highlight your product. And I know going back to my sewer truck days, one of the benefits of the product was you always wanted to show up against your competitors without water. And the reason being was we were able to show how quicker we could add water in the product which going back to us saying uptime gets you up on the road and running versus allowing something to come in. So you learn these, if you want to call it tricks of the trade. But in this case, like I said, even without the slalom course, people loved the way it drove. You know, people said it drove like a mid level suv. For those who haven’t seen the product, right, it’s a cab over style cab but it’s got 7ft of headroom in there. And so I’m six two and I stand up and I feel spacious, and we’ve got a massive one piece windshield that gives you really increased visibility, which a lot of people now, when you’re thinking of from a safety standpoint and pedestrian detection gives you the best field of view.

 

Mark Circo [00:30:42]:

So without the slalom course, they liked it, so. But first time, for sure.

 

John Gough [00:30:47]:

Yeah.

 

Kyler Mason [00:30:47]:

Tell us about your specific role inside of the organization. What are you in charge of? What are you focused on right now?

 

Mark Circo [00:30:53]:

Yeah. So as the head of customer experience, I look at my customer base as twofold. So I’m in charge of the dealer network. So to me, that’s customer number one. And then in some instances, the end customer. We have our sales organization. Right. The term before has been used, like you have hunters and farmers.

 

Mark Circo [00:31:11]:

I used to be a hunter. Now I’m on the farmer side. But having that knowledge of being a hunter obviously helps. So what we do is I work with the current dealer network. That was another reason why I was excited to join Reid. They had a really good, established dealer network for a young company. So getting in there, it’s working with them to identify what are they looking for, what are they needing, you know, timing on product delivery, et cetera, and then identifying potential, if you want to call it, gaps, as to where they are, where they want to be, and then, okay, how do we attack that to help them get to that next point? So focusing on the dealers and what they need to be successful, making sure that we have certification training set up for them, regular training set up for them, infrastructure, whether it’s, you know, our service team, sales team, all the things that they’re going to need, our marketing group as well. And then with the end customer, once they come on board as well, same thing.

 

Mark Circo [00:32:02]:

Right. So how are you going to be utilizing the vehicles? Where are you going to be utilizing the vehicles? Making sure that they’re aware of this robust dealer network that we have, and then connecting the two that say, okay, your dealer is ABC XYZ. Here are the people you need to meet and make sure that that communication stays front and center between the two so they have a really good experience with the product.

 

Kyler Mason [00:32:23]:

What kind of challenges are you running into right now? What’s difficult about the job?

 

Mark Circo [00:32:27]:

That’s an interesting question. I would say right now it’s fun because there’s so many people that get it. They’re seeing what I saw, and they’re like, I want to be part of this. I would say if there’s any challenges, there’s some areas that we’re still looking to add additional dealers to. Right. Some areas where we may have some gaps where we know there’s going to be some need for electrified vehicles.

 

Kyler Mason [00:32:45]:

Like geographic coverage, you mean?

 

Mark Circo [00:32:47]:

Yeah, I don’t have a set number that says I must have a thousand dealers. We’re doing things differently. Where do I need support? Where is business going to be? And make sure I have that support that’s necessary to complement the customer base, the fleet base and the business needs. So I would just say that some of the dealers maybe are going back to what I said earlier and they’re a little, maybe burnt from previous experiences. So I would just say that that would probably be the challenges. It’s a little slower to get them on board. Like they’re excited and you have the cop and they’re like, I’ve never seen anything like this. I want to move forward and they’re just, I think, doing a little extra due diligence, which I totally support and I totally understand if I was a business owner.

 

Mark Circo [00:33:26]:

But what we’re seeing is the people we’ve gauged early on that have gone through that are now saying, okay, I’ve done it. I’ve done my research, I’ve seen it. Now we also see the announcements that have come up, especially the large one we had at act about partnering with Penske Truck leasing, which that also kind of, I think helped things. Right. When you think about how large that company is and how selective they also are partnering with people, they’re coming on board now saying, okay, yeah, I’ve seen what I need to see. You guys have been constant, even though its been a short period of my time with re. They’re like, weve seen enough that we want to start coming on board. So I would say thats the only thing were running into is just a little longer, longer play.

 

Kyler Mason [00:34:02]:

How do you get over the dealers been burnt. They’ve got a bad taste in their mouth. Like, what more evidence do they need from you?

 

Mark Circo [00:34:09]:

It’s trust.

 

Kyler Mason [00:34:10]:

Yeah.

 

Mark Circo [00:34:11]:

One thing that I learned working with the military and federal government is back in the day, people treated that business as cyclical. So if you had a company and your commercial business was going through the roof, you’re like, oh, too much there, right. The contracts are so intricate, right. There’s a lot of time spent. I got to fill out all these big bids just to get a handful of units so they would forego it. But then when the trucking industry is cyclical, so you’re going to have your highs, your lows, and then when it’s low, they would sit there and say, we need to focus back on that military business because, hey, they buy trucks. And so what I learned early on is like, but you weren’t here. It kind of goes back to, like, the military was the old school of your word is your bond.

 

Mark Circo [00:34:47]:

And they were like, if they saw that you’re here through the good times and the bad, that then opened up business because they’re like, okay, you’ve been here. And then take that same kind of concept to what we’re doing here. We just have to staying true. Here’s who we are. Here’s what we’re doing. What do you need to your point? Do you need to see the vehicle? Okay, great. We’ve been demoing it. We’ve had it at shows.

 

Mark Circo [00:35:09]:

Do you need some additional information? Do you want to talk to some people? Your current customers and dealers are your best salespeople because they’re peers, and people want to hear from their peers. So, you know, what made you want to join the company? What did you love about your experience? I think you just wait it out and you’re there through the highs and lows, and they see that you weren’t just trying to kind of maybe get a sale or sign a deal and then leave, you’re like, no, I’m here. And then after they sign as well, it’s just before this call, I had a call with a lot of my dealers, and it’s a regular cadence call, hey, how’s it going? What do you need? You know, what are you seeing? And we go through those things, and then we just continue to have that communication until they say, hey, you know what? I’m good.

 

John Gough [00:35:49]:

It requires a lot of patience. And I think it’s the benefit of having been in the industry for over 20 years is you’ve seen the cycles come and go. You’ve seen the things that customers care about over time, and there’s some things that you just kind of have to wait for. Even as a newer player in the category with new technology and all this stuff is shifting and changing around the customer, there’s some things that just are true, and one of those is trust takes time.

 

Mark Circo [00:36:15]:

Yes. Even though I’m new to the company, everyone brings their network and their experience, and it’s a small industry. Everybody knows everybody, or you’ve worked for somebody that knows somebody. And I think, you know, that also plays into it, too, where they’ll ask about, you know, you as a person is, what is this person like? So if they’re now at a new company and, you know, now representing something else, are they a stand up person or are they someone that I can trust to your point. So I think that kind of maybe expedites some of that trust timeframe because they’ll like, okay, if I know someone that kind of vouches for you, I still want to do my due diligence. But you just moved up in the scale a little bit because of the people that I know.

 

John Gough [00:36:53]:

Yeah. Are there customer expectations that have evolved over time? If you look back to the beginning of your career, things that stand out?

 

Mark Circo [00:37:01]:

Yeah, I would say customers, they’re always knowledgeable, but more so now. We’ve all heard there’s so much information available at your fingertips. And I just look back to, I got into the EV world in 2014, right. So ten years ago and back then people were not really for it. They either your evangelist or your early adopters or somebody that was being forced into it. And then you fast forward now, ten years back then, people were like, infrastructure what? Now people know like, hey, I need to be working on my infrastructure now before I even buy my first ev. So, like, seeing that dynamic, that shift has been really exciting because it makes the transaction so much easier. And you can have more high level discussions and there’s teams now.

 

Mark Circo [00:37:44]:

Right. If you think about talking to some of the fleets and customers, they have infrastructure people, they have charging people, they have utilization and use case people. So you can really get granular in these discussions, which once again ends up having a better outcome on the end when they finally get the product because you’ve gone through everything that you need to.

 

John Gough [00:38:00]:

Yeah. When we listen to people at these shows talk about short haul last mile, there’s momentum in the industry that makes electrification feel really obvious, different than what we see in here in consumer products and automotive specifically, which is very political. And people have lots of big feelings about electric vehicles. Is that consistent with your experience? Do you see the same thing there?

 

Mark Circo [00:38:24]:

Yeah, you do. And really, I think it’s also microcosm in the trucking industry because it’s more regional, I would say. Right. And how it plays out, you have the people who have the customers and the constituents. That’s what they expect. So if I’m a major fleet or a company, if I’m not offering it, I’m going to miss out because my end customer is going to want to go somewhere that has that. Then you have, which I know is always being discussed and it’s still pushed, is the EPA compliance and the regulations. So that’s another factor you have that’s driving a lot of this but I think in general, going back to saying how things have shifted, I think people in general are more concerned about the environment and saying, you know, what can I do or what part can I play in making sure that I’m making a positive impact on the environment.

 

Mark Circo [00:39:09]:

Right. And I know some people may kind of cringe at that or not agree. Right. And that’s fine. Right. It’s not for everyone. You’re going to have people who do. But I think we’re offering an amazing technology product that obviously is environmentally friendly for the people who want that and will help those last mile deliveries or use case to say, here is a completely different alternative that’s meeting that requirement for you.

 

John Gough [00:39:31]:

I’m interested to know more about your approach to data and customer feedback and how that is shaping your customer experience strategy.

 

Mark Circo [00:39:42]:

I’m a data nerd. I think it’s helped me also be a good salesperson throughout my career, starting on that kind of data mentality, because it takes emotion out. Obviously, emotion plays up some part of it, but early on, I think it’s just the math and science. So the data is going to give you one slice, and obviously the other line I use is garbage in, garbage out. So if your data is precise, then great. So if you look at it, I think that really paints the picture saying, okay, what am I looking at? What are my customers needs? What is the segment telling me? Or where do I need to play? So I’m not putting effort somewhere that they’re not needed or they’re wasted. Early in my career, once again, I’ve been very, very lucky to have good mentors. And some of the best advice I’ve had were 80% on time is better than 100% or late.

 

Mark Circo [00:40:27]:

But really the big one was there’s two things you can control in your life, your time and your energy. So spend them wisely. Right? So I think data helps you really allocate your time and your energy into the right parts. Then you couple that, right? That’s only one aspect. You can’t just rest on data. Then you take the voice of the customer. We all do, because we’re customers on our own. Regardless, we buy.

 

Mark Circo [00:40:48]:

Sometimes it’s not what we say. We call it find the pain, heal the pain. I may be telling you about one thing, but really it’s something else. So I think the key there is listening to the customer just asking small questions and really just hearing what they’re talking about and then continue to dig a little bit and let them really identify what the true issue is. So I think with the data, with the voice of the customer and really listening and then looking at the data and correlating it, you could then come back with a forced rank list that says, okay, so the data told me x, you told me why I put it together. Let me come back to you. And here’s what I see. I see z.

 

Mark Circo [00:41:26]:

And does this kind of align with your expectations or your issues or what you wanted to do? And then I think if it does, great, you close the loop. If it doesn’t, you kind of go back to step two. Right? You have more conversations, you reassess, and you move forward.

 

John Gough [00:41:40]:

You have a story in your head that you’re thinking about as you’re describing that process.

 

Mark Circo [00:41:44]:

It was a while back where somebody came to be at a trade show. It was a customer who dealt with a previous person at a company and was just livid and literally, like, in my face and just coming at me, and they were completely talking about, just say something all the way to the left. And so I just asked questions like, sir, I understand you’re mad. Why? And just send them off again. They come back to you. And long story short, it was, hey, somebody didn’t ask my opinion on removing an option from the vehicle. So it was, I was left out of an important decision, and also that’s impacted my business. And I feel like I was lied to or misled, and I’m angry.

 

Mark Circo [00:42:25]:

He had a point, so I just acknowledged. I was like, you’re right. And it just took the air right out because he was expecting, like, this defensive posture, and I was like, no, I hear you. And I would feel the same way. And so let’s talk about, you know, what our options are. It’s obviously a little bit after the fact, so we may be limited to what we can do, but we were able to find a resolution. And the fact that, once again, going back to just listening to the person and asking the questions, that led me to truly understand it wasn’t the first thing he was talking about. It was this ultimate removal from a decision and this option that really lit his fire.

 

Mark Circo [00:42:59]:

Yeah, we were great friends after Bob product, but because it goes back to that trust, right? They’re like, okay, I came to you with an issue. You didn’t try and blame me or get defensive. You heard me, you acknowledged, and you found a resolution. Now, it doesn’t always work that way. Right? Sometimes you may not agree with what they’re saying, and there is no resolution, but I still think how you handle that will impact your relationship. You have with that person.

 

Kyler Mason [00:43:21]:

Totally. So back to read like in the context of why you win, we’re talking about customers have been burned. There’s a bit of a hesitation. John mentioned patience earlier. And usually in the worlds we’re in, winning looks like growth and market share. How are you balancing? Im assuming aggressive growth goals with the reality of the fact that the market is where it is and you have to handle manage these trust issues. How does that all stack up together?

 

Mark Circo [00:43:53]:

The great thing there, like I said, they had a really good established dealer network prior to my arrival. So you had that foundational business structure set and they had a really good order board as well. If you look at where were at now take our dealer network. We’re at I think 21 individual type dealers, but with a total of 66 sales and service locations across North America. That’s massive. For just Sol Evie truck company our order board is just over $50 billion. Going back to that board, it’s like the product has. I don’t want to belittle.

 

Mark Circo [00:44:26]:

There’s been a lot of hard work to get it to where it is. But as I said, once they see it, they feel it and they experience it, it sells itself. Right. So having that such a unique product has removed maybe some of those obstacles. If I was in a traditional type EV product and there’s nothing wrong with that, they’re great, they work. But I think having this truly disruptive technology has made that a little easier. There’s still, like you said, some challenges and a little long playing. But I think what the early success has helped us with that.

 

Mark Circo [00:44:58]:

We’ve had some really good stories in progression. Right? As prior to my arrival last year act, there was a model of a vehicle in the booth. Right? As you saw at NTA, now you have this cab chassis that people were seeing and were amazed by. Then you get to act and we do 100 riding drives and they’re like, okay, so this is on the road we announced working with Penske truck leasing U Haul, another major fleet, and then Airbus, right? Airbus is using our technology for an autonomous project. And that’s the other benefit of having a buy wire platform and product is that it’s built for. When we get to that autonomous driving aspect, you just layer it right on top. It’s so easy because of the buy wire structure. So I think those things have actually helped us continue this trajectory and this growth.

 

Mark Circo [00:45:46]:

And I think you’ll still see that during the end of this year. As I said, we’re in a lot of discussions right now to close those gaps from a map standpoint of dealer representation affirmatively, or you have to love and be passionate about the product, right. To sell it. Even though, like I said, I’m on the farming side. Once again, another great thing I’ve heard, right? Everyone’s in sales. Everyone’s in sales. It doesn’t matter if you’re literally, you never see a customer. You’re someone internally, like an engineer that works on a certain function, like a tail light that customers going to see.

 

Mark Circo [00:46:14]:

I’m like, oh, it’s position grade or what? You know, you’re selling that aspect to the customer. Like I said, we were talking before we started recording. I’ve got a son that’s graduating high school. He saw the pictures, and of course he’s biseled, but he’s like, dad, that truck looks cool. I’m like, right? And he’s like, it looks like it was meant to be electric. And so that’s why I had to jump in. I kind of live like, no regrets, and just said, I think they’re really, really onto something, and I want to be part of it.

 

John Gough [00:46:41]:

I’m interested to know as you’re entering, I would say entering now, a few months into this new role, and we are firm believers that people win by making good bets. And so I’m really curious to hear your reflection back to somebody just starting out, somebody maybe entering a new role or a new position. What advice do you have?

 

Mark Circo [00:47:02]:

I’m glad you asked that question and truly humbled and honored that you guys invited me. Right? It’s 24 years. You look back, man. Has it been that long? And people actually want to hear what I have to say based on experience, I would just say the things that made my career different. It’s like, how do we win? So I look back, like, how did I win? I took jobs in a lot of cases. And not saying this about re, we’ll get to the re part, but that nobody wanted when I was raised and growing up was like, never say no. If someone’s offering you an opportunity, you take it. It may not be what you want, but you’re going to learn something, and it’s what you make out of it.

 

Mark Circo [00:47:32]:

So, you know, there’s maybe some jobs that people didn’t like or it required relocation. And, you know, fortunately, my life at that stage, I could do it right. Obviously, when you have a family, it’s a little different. I looked at those as truly opportunities, and the advice I would say is, learn as much as you can and then also divest I went from data into sales, and then at one point in my life, I left sales and I was in operations, literally completely different, working at a plant, being in charge of an order port, so being the liaison between the sales force and production facility, which gave me a completely different view, going back to that cradle the grave aspect on the business. So I would say, learn as much as you can. Push your comfort zone. Those are some of the things you have to do right, is if it feels safe, it may not be right, like, push yourself out of your comfort zone. If it feels a little unsafe, go for it.

 

Mark Circo [00:48:24]:

What’s the worst thing that happens? If it doesn’t work out? You’ll find something else. And I know that’s easier said than done, and it really not be that situation, but when I look back at my career, that’s what’s helped me. I’ve taken big risks in other people’s eyes, but really, I was betting on myself. That said, I’m going to go here, and even if it’s not what I thought it was, I’m going to work as hard as I can to make it what I need it to be or what I want it to be. As you progress in your career, you then start getting opportunities to kind of pick right. Like back then, you’re like, I’m just going to take it now, right? As you progress, people are like, well, I have these opportunities. So there you can maybe say, oh, you know what? Now I have the luxury where I want to do that instead of this. I don’t have to necessarily take that job.

 

Mark Circo [00:49:04]:

So, long winded answer, I apologize, but just look back. I think that’s what it is. Just like, take risks, you know, push yourself out of the comfort zone, then just make it your own. Put your spin on it. You got it for a reason. Someone chose you, so stick to what got you there and what’s true to you.

 

John Gough [00:49:21]:

Why you win is presented by element three, a marketing firm focused on modernizing go to market strategies for manufacturers that sell through complex distribution channels. We help leaders solve problems across demand generation, sales channel support, and brand development.

 

Kyler Mason [00:49:38]:

If you’d like more from myself or John, connect with us on LinkedIn. And for more from Element Three, visit Element Three. That’s Element Three.